比特币耶稣

　　比特币耶稣：比特币现金的普及

　　摘 要:“ 比特币现金能允许世界上任何地方的任何人即时向任何人转账或接收任何金额的资金，无手续费，并且没有任何人可以做任何事情来阻止它。”

　　《加油站》韩国站第13期访谈实录：

　　-Guest info-

　　Roger Ver

　　CEO of

　　Host：Roger，您好。欢迎您的到来！

　　首先我来介绍一下Sandy,她是今天的主持人。Sandy Peng是裂变资本Fission Capital的合伙人。裂变资本是香港的一家区块链创新投资平台。Sandy 还是BC Group（HK.863）的高级顾问。是香港主板上第一家面向Blockchain公司的上市机构，在亚洲拥有首个完全保险的托管解决方案。香港资产管理公司BC Group是香港第一家以区块链为对象的公司，推出亚洲首个数字资产保险托管服务。

　　Hello Roger! Thank you for coming here!

　　I want to introduce Sandy, today host. Sandy Peng is Partner at Fission Capital. A HK based Blockchain innovation platform that invests and builds. Senior Advisor to BC Group (HK.863), the first listed institutional facing Blockchain company on the HK main board, with the first fully insured custody solution in Asia.

　　Sandy：Roger，您好，我是今天的主持人，我们期待能更多的了解您，我想我们会听到很有趣的故事。

　　Hi Roger, Im your interviewer for today. We look forward to hearing about your time in the industry, and interesting stories along the way.

　　Roger：谢谢，我也很希望能分享很多东西。

　　Thank you for hosting!

　　Sandy：我相信Roger不用我介绍大家都也非常了解。他是最早了解比特币的知名人士，是早期比特币接受者、狂热的倡导者、企业家和投资者。他最有名的成就包括，BCH的支持者等。我迫不及待地想要开始了。

　　I think Roger needs no introduction. He is by far the most well known person in the early Bitcoin space. An early adopter, and avid advocate, an entrepreneur and an investor. His most famous accomplishments include , Supporter of BCH, and many more. So I can’t wait to get started.

　　2013年，我在Youtube上首次了解了比特币相关知识。您的视频非常简单明了的介绍的中本村（Satoshi）的思想。不过，现在比特币家族要复杂得多，如果你有30秒时间向今天的行业新人解释比特币，你会怎么说？

　　When I first read about Bitcoin in 2013, I went on Youtube, and your videos were the most simple and succinct version of Satoshi’s Vision for me (Excuse the pun). Now the Bitcoin family is much more complicated, if you had 30 seconds to explain Bitcoin to someone new to the industry today, what would you say?

　　Roger：我要说的和以前也是一样的，只不过把比特币改为比特币现金。比特币现金能允许世界上任何地方的任何人即时向任何人转账或接收任何金额的资金，无手续费，并且没有任何人可以做任何事情来阻止它。

　　I would give the same speech today, but change the word Bitcoin to Bitcoin Cash. Bitcoin Cash allows anyone, anywhere in the world to send or receive any amount of money with anyone else, instantly, basically for free, and there is nothing that anyone can do to stop it.

　　Sandy：这是一个很好的答案。但在今天的加密货币生态中，似乎有很多代币可以让你实现这一点。为什么您只说比特币现金呢？

　　Thats a great answer. But in todays crypto landscape, it seems like there are a lot of tokens that claim to allow you to do that. Why Bitcoin Cash?

　　Roger：我是所有能够成为P2P电子现金的代币的忠实粉丝。比如有一些很好的例子，如Dash，Zcash，Zcoin等。

　　Im a fan of all the tokens that work as peer to peer electronic cash. Some other great examples are Dash, Zcash, Zcoin, etc

　　Sandy：如果有人完全不了解过去几年发生的事情，您如何解释分叉的发生？当时有什么重大的辩论吗？

　　If someone completely missed what happened in the last few years, how would you explain why the original fork happened? What were some of the major debates at play then?

　　Roger：有很多事情发生，足以写一本关于这个主题的书。不过简短的总结是：一部分人并不认为比特币应该是原始白皮书中描述的点对点的电子现金系统。相反，他们希望它只是“价值储存”。他们成功地控制了英语口语讨论平台，并利用审查制度、禁止任何有不同观点的人使用比特币的BTC版本，并阻碍加密货币在全球范围内的应用。我很难过看到他们以这种方式阻碍比特币社区的成长，直到今天，仍有很多生态系统的新用户被审查制度所误导。

　　That is a lot to cover. A whole book could be written on the topic, but a short summary is: One group of people didnt think Bitcoin should be a peer to peer electronic cash system as described in the original white paper. Instead they wanted it to be used only as a store of value. They successfully took over the English speaking discussion platforms and used censorship and banning of anyone with a different point of view to hijack the BTC version of Bitcoin and delay the adoption of crypto CURRENCIES around the world. It breaks my heart to have watched the Bitcoin community be hijacked in this way, and new users to the ecosystem are still being deceived by the censorship to this very day.

　　Sandy：哇，这是一个非常有个性的观点。 谢谢您的分享！

　　我想问一下您说的“审查制度”具体指什么呢？想跟多的了解你提到的辩论。一方认为应该保留比特币，而另一方认为应该花费比特币。

　　Wow, that is a very strong view. Thank you for sharing.

　　I would love to ask more about what you mean by censorship, but I want to stay focused on the scaling debate I think you alluded to. One side believes Bitcoin Should be kept, and one side believes Bitcoin should be spent.

　　Roger：如果BTC不是一个“个人和个人的电子现金系统，那它就不是比特币。如果大家想要更多了解“审查制度”，大家可以点击以下链接：

　　If BTC isnt a peer to peer electronic cash system then it isnt Bitcoin.

　　If people want to read more about the censorship, there are some good summaries here:

　　Sandy：“货币流通速度”的概念也很有意思。您是否相信“消费或者使用的越多越好“，为什么呢？

　　The concept of velocity of money is an interesting one. So you are on the side that believes the more spending/ usage the better? why is that?

　　Roger：我认为人们想要保留比特币的唯一原因是，认为自己有能力以后花费比特币。如果你做到那你就不用花费比特币，也没有任何理由保留比特币。

　　我不认为人们需要花费他们持有的加密货币，但为了想要持有他们的加密货币，当他们想要的时候，他们需要有能力去花。如果它不可花费，那也就没有任何理由持有它了。

　　I think that the only reason people would want to keep Bitcoin is if they know that they have the ability to spend it later. If you make it so you cant spend Bitcoin, there isnt any reason to keep Bitcoin.

　　I dont think that people need to spend their crypto currency, but in order to want to hold their crypto currency, they need to have the ability to spend it when they want to. If it isnt spendable, there isnt any reason to hold it.

　　Sandy：如果你认为比特币是一种股权（经典的价值存储），那么想要拥有它的人越多，它获得的价值越高，这是对的吗？

　　If you think of Bitcoin as an equity (classic store of value), then the more people wanting to hold it, the more value it gains, is that correct？

　　Roger：我们再来说一下关于审查的话题，它对人们的影响是惊人的，我在下面这个链接讲得很清楚了。不过由于中国的审查制度很严，可能很难看到这个视频。

　　人们想要持有比特币的最佳方式是让他们知道他们可以在任何地方可用比特币消费。人们都希望持有美元或人民币的原因是因为他们可以用这些货币在任何地方消费。如果美元、人民币或韩元没有其支付消费的意义，将没有人愿意持有它们。

　　On the censorship topic again, the effect that it has on people is stunning, due to censorship in China, it may be hard to view this video, but I think I did a good job explaining it here:

　　The best way for people to want to hold Bitcoin is if they know that they can spend it everywhere. The reason everyone wants to hold USD, or CNY is because they can spend them anywhere. If USD or CNY or KRW stopped being spendable, no one would want to hold them.

　　. com/watch?v=caUDXLqpdYc

　　Sandy：是的，这是真理！您如何看待闪电络（Lightning）作为一种潜在的解决方案？

　　Yup, that is very true. What do you think of LIghtning as a potential solution?

　　Roger：全世界有7,935名闪电络用户。在一天内为更多新的比特币现金用户做广告。我希望闪电络（LN）能好运，但我并不感兴趣，因为它还没有实现商业价值。当然也许有一天会改变。

　　There are 7,935 lightning users in the entire world. adds more new Bitcoin Cash users in a single day. I wish LN good luck, but it isnt interesting to me because it isnt usable in commerce reliably. Maybe someday that will change.

　　Sandy：我没有意识到，不过我认为你一定是第一批所谓的“Crypto KOL”版本，但与其他的推荐ICO或IEO的其他KOL不同，你一直执着于一种代币？这是为什么呢？

　　I didn’t realise it then, but I think you must have been the first version of the so called “Crypto KOL”, but unlike all the other KOLs who are promoting different ICOs or IEOs, you always stick to one token, why is that?

　　Roger：实际上，我并不知道KOL是什么，不过我也喜欢多种多样的代币，并持有和推广。目前我最喜欢BCH，因为我认为它最有可能通过实现更多的经济自由来改善全世界大多数人的生活。我很乐意做任何努力让人们的生活更美好。

　　I don’t know what a KOL is, but I like, hold, and promote lots of tokens. I currently like BCH the best because I think it has the best chance of improving the lives of the most number of people around the world by enabling more economic freedom. Ill gladly promote whatever actually works to make peoples lives better.

　　Sandy：我认为，作为BCH的支持者，您刚说的就是BCH的首要任务吗？我问您这个问题是因为我在研究期间发现了这张照片。

　　I see, as a BCH supporter, what would you say is BCHs top priority right now? Im asking you because I found this picture during my research.

　　Roger：我认为这张照片做得很好。比特币现金已经拥有了它所需要的几乎所有东西。快速，廉价，私密，令牌和热情的用户群。我认为我们应该继续关注让更多人真正使用BCH进行实际的商业交易。

　　I think that photo does a good job. Bitcoin Cash already has almost all of what it needs. Fast, Cheap, Private, Tokens, and passionate user base. I think we should just continue to focus on getting more people to actually use BCH for actual commercial transactions.

　　我真的很喜欢BCH最近升级的隐私功能，多亏有。我们很快也会将相同的功能添加到钱包中。

　　I really love the recent privacy upgrade to BCH thanks to , we will be adding this same feature to the wallet soon too.

　　Sandy：在未来一年的时间里，您想在哪里看到BCH？

　　Where would you want to see BCH in one years time?

　　Roger：我们还正专注于通过提供各种SDK来吸引更多开发人员，以便人们更轻松地在上构建BCH应用程序。我们正与日本约3,000家实体店合作。我期待他们所有人在明年的这个时候能够接受BCH，在日本已有很多地方接受了BCH，不是BTC。

　　We are also focusing on attracting more developers by offering all sorts of SDKs to make it easier for people to build BCH apps at . We are working with a chain of about 3,000 physical shops in Japan. I look forward to all of them accepting BCH by this time next year. There are already more places in Japan accepting BCH than BTC.

　　Sandy：这太妙了！您可能是向新用户解释BCH、并向店主推广BCH付款的最佳人选。您说的10年目标是什么呢？推广到100万店？

　　Thats fantastic! Youre probably the best person to explain BCH to new comers, and promote BCH payment to shop owners. What is the goal for say 10 years. 1 million shops?

　　Roger：我对比特币现金分叉的代币也非常感兴趣。来自的第一个代币已在本周早些时候在交易所上市了。我们也将很快为我们的400万钱包添加完整的BCH代币支持。已有超过100,000个站接受BCH付款。10年后，我希望看到每天出售的新都预装BCH钱包。我们已经与几家制造商就此进行了洽谈。

　　Im also very excited about the tokens being made on Bitcoin Cash. The first one from was just listed on an exchange earlier this week. We will also be adding full BCH token support to our 4 million wallets soon too. BCH already has over 100,000 online sites accepting it for payment. In 10 years I would like to see every new cell phone sold each day to come pre-installed with a BCH wallet. We are already in talks with several cell phone manufacturers about this.

　　Sandy：我认为第三世界国家的制造商相当分散。但是，第一世界市场由一些大公司主导。您认为如何实现BCH钱包预装呢？

　　I think handset manufacturers for 3rd world countries are fairly fragmented. But first world market is dominated by some of the big players. What do you think is needed to say get Apple onboard for BCH pre installment?

　　Roger：由于没有官方加密货币或BCH公司，就靠我们所有人诉我们的朋友和家人，并帮助他们设置钱包，让他们开始每天使用BCH进行付款。

　　我认为人们会发现BCH非常有用，以至于许多国家的人们无法想象他们上没有它。

　　大家都知道，谷歌地图就是如此。每个人都喜欢在他们的iPhone上下载安装地图，最终Apple公司自己制作并将其构建到操作系统中。所以我相信一旦有足够多的人发现BCH有用，BCH在未来会被直接安装到操作系统的。

　　Because there is no official crypto currency or BCH company, it is up to all of us to tell our friends and families, and help them setup wallets, and to start using it for payments every day. I think we will need for BCH to be so useful for so many people in so many countries that people couldnt imagine not having it on their phone.

　　We saw this happen previously with google maps. Everyone loved using the maps on their iphone, so eventually Apple made their own and built it right into the OS. The same is possible for BCH in the future once enough people find it useful.

　　Sandy：所以Facebook Coin、JP Coin等主导市场的美国大公司都计划进入这个领域。凭借他们的影响力和现有用户，您认为BCH社区可以在同一水平上竞争吗？

　　So Facebook Coin, and JP Coin all the giant US companies that dominate some segment of the market are planning on coming into this space. With their clout and existing users, do you think BCH community can compete on the same level?

　　Roger：我不知道，其中很大程度上取决于FacebookCoin或JPCoin的特征。一般最有用的Coin会被最多使用。但络效应也是其中非常重要的一部分，Facebook和摩根大通从一开始就会有很大的络效应。

　　I dont know. A lot of it will depend on the characteristics of Facebook coin, or JP coin. The coin that is the most useful will be used the most, but the network effect is a very important part of that. Facebook and JP Morgan will have large network effects from the very start.

　　Sandy：我希望可以问这个问题。除了你的BCH相关工作以外，您以一些无政府主义者的观点而闻名，你能否解释一下这对BCH社区有什么帮助呢？

　　I hope this is ok to ask

　　. Apart from your BCH work, you are known for some of your anarchist views, can you explain to me if/how that helps the BCH community?

　　Roger：我认为所有人类的互动应该都是自愿的想法并不是极端的，一小部分人利用暴力威胁来教导其他所有人的想法是因为他们需要把自己的极端立场合理性。但是我参与到了比特币，我是自愿的，大多数其他比特币采用者也是如此。我认为加密货币是一种工具，能从想要用暴力来控制别人的人手中夺走权力。如果加密货币没有这种能力，我就不会对为它而着迷。

　　所以您觉得我的无政府主义观点有帮助吗？ 我认为是有的。加密货币如今已成为世界范围内已成风，许多新用户由此而接触到了新的自愿主义思想。

　　I think the idea that all human interactions should be voluntary isnt extreme at all. The idea that one small group of people get to use threats of violence to boss everyone else around is the extreme position that needs to be justified. I got involved in Bitcoin because I was already a voluntaryist, and so were most of the other early adopters. I see crypto currencies as a tool to take away power from people who want to use violence to control other people. If crypto currencies didnt have that ability, I wouldnt be interested in them.

　　So did my anarchist views help? I think they clearly did. Crypto currencies are a worldwide phenomenon today, and lots of new people have been exposed to the new ideas of voluntaryism because of that.

　　Sandy：这个方式很有趣！因此，BCH社区的一些原始成员最近发起了另一个分支，叫做BSV。您对此有何看法？有人说它使得BCH运动放慢了脚步。

　　Thats an interesting way to look at it. So some original members of the BCH community initiated another fork recently, and called it BSV. What are you views on that? It has been said that it took something away from the momentum of the BCH movement.

　　Roger：BCH BSV分叉确实推迟了BCH的采用，但我认为两个阵营都可以使用他们最喜欢的Coin版本。我希望喜欢BSV能做好他们的项目，祝他们好运！但这不是我感兴趣的事情。

　　The BCH BSV split surely did delay the adoption of BCH, but I think both camps can work on the version of a coin that they like best. I wish the BSV people good luck with their project, but it isnt something Im interested in myself.

　　Sandy：Ok，我想我们只剩10分钟的提问时间了。Roger非常坦诚地分享他对这个行业的看法，在我看来他是最好的沟通者和思想领袖之一。

　　Ok, I think we have only 10 minutes left with Roger. He has been super candid in sharing his views on the industry, and still one of the best communicator and thought leader in my opinion.

　　I have prepare some quick fire questions for Roger: 1. What is your idea of a BCH killer Dapp?

　　Roger：现金！ 代币也很酷。

　　killer Dapp是点对点电子现金。我们已经知道这一点，因为这是比特币起始的原因。

　　Cash!Tokens are pretty cool too.

　　The killer Dapp is peer to peer electronic cash. We already know this since it is what got Bitcoin started to begin with.

　　Sandy：在这个领域，您最尊敬的人是谁？

　　Who is person that you most respect in this industry?

　　Roger：是中本聪，因为他发明了这项我们所有人都能从中受益的惊人技术。

　　另外，我认为我非常欣赏Bitpay（一家全球性的比特币支付服务提供者）的创始人，因为他们能够使用加密货币进行如此多的商业活动。

　　I think I respect Satoshi the most for inventing this amazing technology that we all get to benefit from.

　　For people whos real identity is known, I think I appreciate the Bitpay founders the most for enabling so much commerce to take place using crypto currencies.

　　Sandy：作为早期的接受者，您认为到现在这个过程中您获得的最有价值的东西是什么？

　　As an early adopter, what would you say is the most valuable lesson you took from this journey?

　　Roger：Stephan和Tony也是非常早期的比特币接受者，他们做了非常棒的工作，让大商家们开始接受比特币。我学到的最有价值的东西就是不要低估审查制度对塑造公众舆论的角色。比特币社区内正在进行的审查对社群用户产生了巨大影响。

　　Stephan and Tony are their names. They were super early too, and did an amazing job getting large merchants to start accepting bitcoin. The most valuable lesson Ive learned would be to not underestimate the effectiveness of censorship upon shaping public opinion. The ongoing censorship within the Bitcoin community has had a giant effect on peoples views.

　　Sandy：让商家们接受比特币是很难的！我尝试了多次都以失败而告终。如果让您给我一条推销的路线，这条路线会是什么？

　　Getting merchants to accept bitcoin is HARD! I tried a failed many times. If you can give me a sales line to regurgitate, what would that line be?

　　Roger：我认为在西方使用像Bitpay这样的服务更容易。它们允许商家即时接受来自任何人的付款，没有退款或支付欺诈的风险，甚至这可以比信用卡便宜很多。我对也非常兴奋，我们也将很快推出。它将使世界各地的人们能够没有限制的相互交易。

　　I think it was easier in the west with services like Bitpay. They allow merchants to accept payments from anyone, anywhere, instantly, with no risk of charge backs or payment fraud, and can do it much cheaper than credit cards.

　　Im also super excited about that we will be launching soon too. It will enable people all over the world to permissionlessly trade with each other.

　　Sandy：最后一个问题：现在您所在的这个社群成员全都是女性。所以您能说出一个您所尊重的女性区块链企业家吗？会有更多的年轻女性参与这个行业吗？

　　My last question: because we are in an all female blockchain chat group. Can you name a female blockchain entrepreneur you respect, and what would you say to get more young women involved in the industry?

　　Roger：当然，我很欣赏Sandy和Vivian能够开加密货币交易所，我是她们的粉丝、Star和琪亚娜（Kiana）。

　　Of course I appreciate Sandy and Vivian for setting this up, and Im also a fan or Star and Kiana for setting up crypto exchanges.

　　Sandy：Roger，我还有一个问题。未来您有计划把业务扩展到韩国吗？今年在韩国推介BCH？

　　And Roger I have a question. Is there any future plan expand to Korea? Adoption of BCH for Korea this year?

　　Roger：我非常非常喜欢韩国，希望能在韩国过一段时间，并帮助推动BCH的商用。我非常感谢这个群里所有韩国朋友的帮助。如果有人还没有BCH，只需安装钱包和DM或给我发送你的BCH地址，我会尝试给你转过去的。（roger@）

　　I enjoy Korea very very very much and would love to spend more time there and help drive more BCH adoption there. Id also love the help of all the Koreans in this group too. If anyone doesnt have any BCH yet, just install the wallet and DM or email me your BCH address and I will send you some to try. roger@

　　Sandy：我觉得市场会再次迎来一个井喷期，您觉得呢？

　　And nowadays there is market rise up suddenly, what do you think about it?

　　Roger：我认为商用化会不断提高加密货币的价格，目前我正致力于实现更多的商用化。

　　I think adoption in commerce drives the price higher and higher, so Im focusing on creating more adoption in commerce.

　　Sandy：太棒了！非常感谢您今天参加我们的采访。

　　Awesome:) Thank you so much for your time Roger!